There are some people who often make SUCH A BIG DEAL about dating as if it were somehow automatically correlated to marriage. However, the reality of the matter is, DATING does NOT mean that you are signing up to marry the person you are dating. HONESTLY. SCREW JOSHUA HARRIS (some guy who wrote a book called “I Kissed Dating Goodbye”). All dating means is that you want to spend time with an individual to see if it makes sense on a completely platonic basis. Meaning apart from the interest you have for each other, do you even make SENSE on a practical level? Do you guys complement each other? Is there something more than just puppy love that’ll keep you guys together in the long run? Dating is so practical, and oftentimes SO necessary! And yet, because of the Joshua Harris curse, we somehow loathe and fear dating. That just frustrates me!
In this post, I’m going to cover some of my own real life experiences to articulate my point. I dated a caucasian girl in second grade. That’s right, as an asian man, I crossed the ethnic barrier. I win. Her name is Elizabeth. I don’t remember her last name. She was the first girl that I ever kissed, cause that girl ALWAYS wanted to kiss me. I remember when we went out for recess, she would always want to sneak into a back corner and kiss. Honestly, at that time, I was really like “WTF!?”. It’s not like I even really understood why people kiss, or what to do with it. She tried to stick her tongue down my mouth one time, and I had no idea why she wanted to do that. Wow. What a girl…I mean, she wanted to kiss. So we would kiss.
But then she moved away to San Diego. It was a really really sad day when that happened. I bought her this little rose thing and gave it to her when she left. I’ve ALWAYS wondered what happened to her. What if she’s some super hot girl now, and we will meet in like…one more year, and she’s a super crazy christian and we see each other and we instantaneously FALL IN LOVE!? IT CAN HAPPEN GUYS. I BELIEVE. PRAY FOR ME! IT CAN HAPPEN!
But yea…that was my “childhood” crush.
Anyways, since most of you guys will probably not allow me to count my girlfriend in 2nd grade, let me cover the girls that I’ve actually dated apart from that, or at least three relationships that I feel like were important and that I learned a lot from. I’m going to leave names out of this, just in case……
Let me start off by clarifying what dating is NOT. During my second year of college, I developed probably the most significant relationship I’ve had with a female so far. She was, in my head, everything that I thought I wanted. So I committed basically ALL of myself to this girl even before we started “dating”. She was the first girl that I ever really PURSUED diligently. I was going over to her place like all the time, talking to her on the phone till really late…looking back, it was pretty disgusting how much time I spent with her. This reality was only compounded by the fact that I absolutely DID NOT go to any of my classes. I think during my time of pursuing her, I went to more of her classes than my classes cause I would go to her classes and take notes for her…
Just kidding. I’m not that pathetic. Really. All I did was write her essays, pluck her armpit hairs, and…basically wear the short leash with a misplaced sense of pride. Hindsight Idiot.
But no seriously. I pursued her like non-other. Don’t forget that I TRULY BELIEVED that this relationship was from God. I had “signs”. I “thought” God spoke to me on numerous occassions that we were meant together. So, finally, the week before valentine’s day, I asked her out. I wanted to take her out on valentines, and OMG if you knew the things that I had planned for her. I LITERALLY BROKE MY BANK to make the night happened. I spent about 600 dollars, almost all my financial aid money. Nothing like good ol’ loan money to make valentines day possible! I had a four part plan for the night.
#1. I bought her two dozen roses and a stuffed animal. Now, if you know anything about valentines day, ROSES ON VALENTINES DAY IS JUST STRAIGHT UP THE BIGGEST RIP OFF EVER. I spent literally 150 Dollars on TWO DOZEN ROSES. WTF!? I had the roses all in the trunk of my car, with the stuffed animal on top. I knew she would have to put her keyboard in my “trunk”, so I knew I could “surprise” her without much effort. The scheme worked. She opened the trunk to a pleasant surprise. Who’s the man?
#2. Afterwards, I drove her to this restaurant called Moonshadows. It was a restaurant in Malibu, the place where Mel Gibson got in trouble for his Jewish racial slurs. Anyways, the awesome thing about Moonshadows is that it’s RIGHT next to the beach, so, because we got there early, we snuck onto the very private beaches of Malibu, and walked hand in hand while the sun was SETTING. It seriously couldn’t have been more perfect…there was NO ONE ELSE around, the sun was setting BEAUTIFULLY, and we were kissing as the sun was going down. EAT YOUR HEART OUT ROMANTIC SAPS! It was a scene from a movie, no joke.
#3. After we ate dinner at Moonshadows, which cost me $200!!! I had planned to take her go-karting. I knew that she liked it, so I drove ALL the way back to Diamond Bar (because I had another plan after go-karting), and we basically raced each other on go-karts. It was a fun ol’time, but the real reason why I was in diamond bar was because I had spent the entire morning planning the final part of the night.
#4. That morning, I had spent a couple hours making chocolate covered strawberries. I made about two dozen of them. I talked to my friend who is familiar with the area, and he told me that he knows a spot I could take her. I recruited him to help me out with it. It was this spot on the top of a “mountain” where you could literally see the entire city. My friend did a really great job of setting it up, he put these candles in the huge shape of a heart, and laid out some blankets for us with my chocolate covered strawberries right dab in the middle. The sky was VERY clear, and the night was seriously beautiful. It was really funny cause I tried to take her up the hill on my back, but I couldn’t hack it, so half the way up I had to make her walk up with me holding her hand (cause she was blindfolded). HAHAHA. It was pretty funny in retrospect. “Sorry babe, you’re too heavy, you’re going to have to walk.”
Anyways, we got to the top, and I took off the blindfold, and sure enough, she literally started tearing up. Honestly, even I was impressed with myself. The night couldn’t have gone more perfect. KODAK moment x 100.
Literally, the next week after that (technically the second week that we were actually DATING), she told me that she loved me. Both of us thought “this was it”. As a matter of fact, I was convinced that she would be my wife. We were talking about it VERY early in the relationship, the logistics of how we would get married. I would pray about it often. I really, really, really believed we would marry.
But we didn’t marry. Obviously. And so I sort of learned my lesson the hard way…I put too much stock, too early, into this person that I didn’t even really know yet.
And during the course of our relationship, especially near the end, it became more and more obvious than on a lot of practical levels, our relationship wasn’t going to work. I wanted to be a minister, she wanted nothing to do with it. I’, the kind of guy who likes to take care of my girlfriends, she’s the kind of girl that likes to be independent. It really became difficult at the end cause I knew that I was demanding too much from her, and it strained the relationship. But I learned my lesson. You can’t invest too much at the start! That’s why I think the whole idea of “courtship” is so retarded. That’s basically an “all in” mentality RIGHT from the beginning. But what if you guys just DON’T WORK? Then you’re basically stuck to some retarded ideology that you’re supposed to MAKE it work because “God wants it that way.” That’s dumb. Date the girl/guy, and see if it works on a basic human level.
After this long relationship, there was this other girl from a club that I went to. Because I had learned from the previous experience, I approached this relationship with a lot more care. We never let the relationship progress to something that serious. Both of us were cautious, and both of us knew that we were just testing the waters to see if it worked. I quickly learned that she is a prime example of why it’s important to date! I mean, she’s a great girl, don’t get me wrong. But we were just NOT GOING to happen. There was ABSOLUTELY no way. We were just two COMPLETELY different people, and it made absolutely no sense. She was SUPER independent, didn’t want kids, and was a bit stubborn. If you know anything about me, an intensely stubborn girl is just not going to mesh with my personality.
We “dated” for like 2 months, and trust me, I am sooo glad that we did. If we hadn’t dated, there is NO way I would have known that we would not work. Cause I honestly thought she was perfect for me before we started dating. If I jumped into the relationship, and went “all in” too early, it could have been a disaster.
There were others, but the point that I want to make is that dating realllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy helps in determining whether it makes sense or not on a practical level. That’s ALL dating is. Yes, I do realize that you invest some of your emotion into that person. Yes, I do realize that breaking up sucks. But honestly, it’s better than being in a marriage that you’re going to regret.
I talked to my friend Anita yesterday, and she was telling me a theory that a local Pastor, Jon Ngai promotes about “progressive peace”. The idea of progressive peace is that when you start dating someone, you have this “progressive peace” that comes over you about the relationship. I really like and embrace that idea. But the key is, it takes dating to experience this “progressive peace”. And you know what, sometimes it’ll be the opposite. Sometimes, you’ll realize it doesn’t make sense. And trust me, during those times, you’ll be pretty damned glad you didn’t kiss dating goodbye.
This is my friend’s story of how she got married. I love it.
“My husband daniel and i met and went on a date because he was interested in me…he asked me out for coffee. simple as that. I thought he was nice. I thought coffee sounded good. So i went. I became interested as we talked. We started dating…fell in love as we got to know each other..eventually got married.” That simple. Progressive peace in action.
{ 6 comments… read them below or add one }
$600?! ohmygoodlord. it’s a good thing you’re a creative man cause you’re gonna have to outdo THAT for your future proposal. (you know i know another person who dropped a couple of benjamins on his gf for valentines. mind boggling)
just pray that your future wife never reads this or that she is a saint and doesn’t care about how much $ you spend on her.
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in class now. thanks for entertaining me through Transnational Perspectives.
Hmm… i wonder if people are getting the OPPOSITE message from your experience dating Elisha – that it can get wrong really fast? is dating different from being bf/gf?
I am hoping there is some kind of distinction between the exclusive committed stage and the learning more about each other stage.
I really do believe people are VERY different in an intimate relationship from their public/group/friend personas.
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ppl should jst take a chill pill about dating. i agree sam, it’s not tht big of an issue, if it happens then yay, if not grow up and move on.
btw
skadouche*
tht was the sound of a whip crack
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Hey, if you don’t remember me I was one of Jonas’ little freshman kids when you were rooming with him. I’ll start by saying I love reading your posts – they’re pretty funny and surprisingly true, if not self-debasing.
Anyway, I read your “About” section and you say you intend to write for the Christian cultural context. But I think you actually write more specifically for the “Korean-American” Christian cultural context. I mean I’m pretty sure your ideas wouldn’t too readily apply in the Indian or African Christian cultural context right? And not that I know much personally about Caucasian Americans or African Americans and their dating habits/rituals, but I think Joshua Harris’ material should be taken primarily from the Caucasian Christian American point of view first.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a die-hard Harris fan. (I’m a die-hard Piper fan..haha) But I do like him and appreciate what he writes. I think “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” is a good book for highschool kids. Hormones are raging, peer pressure is dictating every social interaction, and low self-esteem seeks self-worth in another human being. “Man is a social animal” right? It’s not that Harris is completely against dating – he’s against dating just to have a boyfriend/girlfriend or dating to fulfill emotional or physical needs. But obviously I think something’s gone wrong when I talk to some college-aged Korean-American girls who live in a nice white box and STILL think that if they started dating anytime before age 24, it would be a sin.
I actually read “Boy Meets Girl” recently and how Harris defines courtship isn’t that far off how you define dating. I believe that to Harris, courtship is dating with a purpose, and not to just fulfill personal needs – I mean how selfish is that right? Now I think the disconnect between his ideas and yours is a cultural disconnect. (The following argument is just based on my assumptions, not hardcore facts) White Americans, especially some generic “middle America” white American, get married much much earlier than Korean Americans who don’t really seem to REALLY think about marriage until their late twenties. I hear about white Christians at Biola getting married while they’re still in undergrad! But if I’m going to follow Harris’ logic here, “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” would be great for highschool kids because highschool relationships rarely, rarely ever reach marriage. And by the time the targeted white Christian audience reaches college and are really thinking about marriage, “Boy Meets Girl” would be a good guideline to finding that potential spouse in a purposeful and God glorifying manner.
BUT, because Korean Americans don’t want to think about marriage until after they’ve settled down and are economically stable, there’s this huge gap from the early twenties to the late twenties where Korean Americans are mature enough to date, yet they don’t want to get married anytime soon. So yeah, if you start a courtship with another Korean American and lay it out on the table your intention to pursue marriage at the beginning of a relationship when you’re 23 and the girl is 21, people will freak. But Harris’ courtship advice apply quite readily to Korean Americans especially in their 30s and to a lesser degree those in their late twenties.
So the issue to me seems like Korean Americans don’t want to be adults and think about life-long commitments until after they’ve had their fun as what Piper calls “adultolescents.” I think Korean kids tend to grow up in a strictly regimented, parents-taking-care-of-all responsibilities household so its no surprise when they want to use their early to mid twenties to live a life of independence and youthful freedom. So maybe the issue isn’t that Harris’ ideas on putting marriage on the table from the get-go is wrong, but Korean-Americans place too much emphasis either on personal/economic stability or individual freedom of being a youth (in their mid twenties).
But who knows, I’m just 22 almost 23. I still have many more years of heartbreak and failure ahead of me right? And I know my argument isn’t really against anything you’ve said except that I think your comment about Harris needed some clarification.
Anyway, keep up the good work and I hope you find the girl of your dreams soon!
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Whoa. That was an epic reply. Hahaha. Actually, I think you’d be surprised how readily my views apply cross culturally. Some of them are definitely catered toward Korean Christian, but a lot of my friends who are not Asian read my posts, and they can definitely relate to the things that I say. I feel like Korean-American Christian bubble, although I realize there are cultural differences, is mostly influenced by the same stuff that any Caucasian group would be influenced by.
Furthermore, I tend to agree with your position on Joshua Harris as it applies to high schoolers, but the problem is that once they get into that mindset, they can never grow out of it. It would be nice if they could “live in that mindset” while they are in high school, and immediately snap out of it. But that never happens. They hold onto that mindset for ages and ages to come,and they miss out on plenty of good dating opportunities because of it. I’ve read both of the books, I know Joshua’s position. I actually don’t think you should date with marriage as the end goal, at least, not at the start. What I mean by that is, you shouldn’t be so convinced so early that the relationship IS going to end there. Because, if you do, you end up restricting yourself to that person and marrying them solely on that principle of “it has to end in marriage!” rather than “I really think I can marry him/her” or feeling guilt/anxiety/stress etc. when the relationship hits difficult stages, and you just don’t feel like it will work. Of course, you should consider it a possibility every time you get into a relationship, but I believe in progressive peace. As you date someone, if it’s supposed to end in marriage, you become more and more comfortable with the prospect of this relationship ending in marriage!
These are just my opinions, ultimately. Hope that clarifies my position a little bit though
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Oh, and I’m not sure about the African and Indian Christian Community. Never been a part of one, and not sure what they think. I’m pretty sure that “Can Guys and Girls Just be Friends” and “The Ladder Theory” and “The Alpha Male” and…actually, I’m pretty sure a lot my posts would translate pretty well into their cultures.
Finally, I actually don’t completely reject Joshua Harris’ book, I wrote my comment more for humor than for rejection of his ideas. I think that if it works for some people, that’s awesome. I just don’t think it’s for everyone!
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